Does It Matter Who Makes More Money in a Relationship?

The progressive, egalitarian answer to the question “does it matter who makes more money in a relationship” would be “no,” right? It doesn’t matter because we should love people for who they are and not how much money they make. It doesn’t matter because money doesn’t define a person’s worth nor his/her contributions to a relationship. It doesn’t matter if it’s the man who makes more or the woman who makes more because we are beyond such gendered roles. Oh if it were only that simple!

Historically, men have done the lion’s share of bringing in income. Our current tax code is based on the assumption that there is one breadwinner in the household. Couples who make wildly disparate incomes often have a “marriage benefit” (i.e. they would pay less in taxes than if they were unmarried), while couples who make roughly similar amounts suffer from a “marriage penalty.”

There are research and anecdotal evidence that says men prefer women who make less money and women prefer men who make more money. When I was young I thought that was silly – especially men who wanted their spouse who makes less money. Why would you want LESS money if married folks combined all their money anyway? (Keep in mind that my understanding of “married folks and money”was based on a sample of 1: my parents). But in fact, my mother once told me that a marriage would be function more smoothly if the man made more money, even if it’s just a little bit more. Now my mother is a very wise woman, and life has proven her right time and time again. But I am hoping she isn’t that right on this issue.

My Personal Take

CB and I met in high school, so we were both as broke as a joke when we started going out. The highlight of those early days of courtship was Krispy Kreme’s free donut hour when the staff passed out complimentary glazed donuts. In teenage girl parlance, I heart delicious fried dough. (Still do!)

When we dated after college, we took turns paying when we went out. When we moved in, we split the rent according to our incomes and divided everything else down the middle, but we never kept very close accounting of who owes whom. Once we are married, we (and the State of California) are going to treat whatever we bring in as ours, not his or hers. Right now I make around 6o% of our income and CB makes 40%, but that hasn’t caused any friction so far.

I’d like to think this is the bottom line: I don’t care much if I make more money or CB makes more money – I just want our little economic/love unit to make more money, period! Haha. In other words, we’re playing on the same team. There will be times when I make more and times when he makes more, but it shouldn’t matter that much as long as we are both doing our best. I can definitely see conflicts, though, if one of us is out of a job without trying hard to find a new one or if our financial situation drastically worsens. Even though things are going fine, sometimes I think about what my mother has said. Am I too much of a Pollyanna? Is there something that my mom foresee that I can’t quite grasp right now?

What My Friends Say

One of my girlfriends said that she looks for a man who will make more money than she does, because she wants to feel that sense of financial security of NOT being the breadwinner. She also wants the option of staying home with kids later on, which would be easier if her income was a smaller portion of the family pie. Her reasoning makes perfect sense. In fact, I think it’s brave and self-aware of her to understand that about herself, because I know many women have conflicted feelings about this issue, but it can be difficult to say that you want your husband to make more money without sounding superficial or materialistic.

I have another friend of mine who has an MBA from a top school and a job making $100,000-plus. One evening, over a bottle of wine, she laid out this dilemma. She said that when she writes her Match.com dating profile, she is torn between three choices: (1) leave the field blank – but she doesn’t want to be excluded from search results that specify an income range, (2) write down her true salary range – but she has found that many men would not contact her because her salary is higher, and (3) lie about her salary, maybe put down a $40,000 instead – but that also feels wrong. What should she do?

Then again, I also talked to a guy friend who says that his ideal woman is gorgeous, thin, and rich as heck so he can enjoy a life of luxury filled with exotic cars and nice vacations. I’m pretty sure he was half-joking, but if a beautiful sugar mama dropped in to his life I doubt he would protest!

I haven’t talked to many men who said that they would view a women taking home a bigger paycheck as a negative. I’d like to think it’s a case of us all being more progressive, but just as it may be hard for women to admit that they want a man who makes more money, it may be difficult for men to admit that they want to be the breadwinner.

I’d like to know what you all think about this topic.

Do you make more than your significant other? How does that affect your relationship or marriage? For the women: do you want a man who makes more money? For the men: does it matter if your wife or girlfriend makes more? Would you prefer to be the breadwinner?

Do We Need a Prenup? 7 Questions You Should Ask Yourself

Do we need a prenup?

Kevin at Thousandaire would say yes! (and in video form, too). Before I actually got engaged, I was a big proponent of prenuptial agreements. Throughout my childhood and teens, I’ve witnessed some rather unhappy marriages (fortunately, not my parents’). So I was quite hung-ho on getting a prenup and defining the financial terms if my marriage were to end. Well, now I am engaged to the man I’ve known for 10+ years, a supporter, a friend, a confidant, a partner. We are getting married in 8 months. Drafting an enforceable prenuptial agreement in California will cost thousands of dollars even for just-starting-out folks like us. Suddenly the issue is less theoretical and more practical. I still think that a prenup is important for many people with more assets, but we aren’t rich. In fact, we are going to be broke grad school students pretty soon. So, is a prenup for us?

7 questions to ask when you ask yourself “Do we need a prenup?”:

  • What does your state law say (and do you agree with it)? In 41 states, assets are split via “equitable distribution.” In 9 community property states (California included), everything acquired during the marriage is automatically split 50/50 if the marriage ends.
  • Do you have substantial assets or expect to come into substantial assets in the future? Bottom line, I don’t think we’re rich enough for a prenup. No millions in the bank, no ownership in businesses, no stock options at hot startups. Our career salary trajectories are roughly similar, and while I make more money now, either one of us has the potential to out-earn the other in the future.
  • Do you agree with splitting assets acquired during marriage 50/50 if you split up? Both of us agree that all assets we acquire during the course of the marriage – outside of inheritance – should be split 50/50 if we were to get divorced. I am more likely to receive an inheritance in the future. If I were to receive an inheritance, however, it would likely be structured in a trust and so would remain separate, not community, property. A prenup can reaffirm that separation, but it’s not critical.
  • Do you have similar levels of debt? We are coming in with roughly equal amounts of student loans.
  • Do you have children? Is this your second or third marriage? This doesn’t apply to us, but I’ve read that a prenup is exceedingly helpful for protecting the interests of children in a remarriage.
  • Do you want to have provisions where assets distributions are used to punish infidelity? If you want to make sure that your spouse’s share goes from 50% to 10% (or 0%), if he/she cheats, then a prenup is necessary. Cheating is so prevalent nowadays that courts don’t really look upon that as a consideration in terms of determining asset splits. Be sure to define what constitutes infidelity and what level of evidence is necessary. That must be a fun conversation.
  • Do you plan to have one person stay at home with the kids? Do you want to figure out the terms of alimony? Some people say that if one person leaves the workforce to take care of kids at home, it’s best not to have a prenup or to have a prenup that says assets will be split 50/50 (to protect the interest of the stay-at-home parent).

Our decision

The bottom line for us is, for the duration of the marriage -which is hopefully forever- we see whatever money we make as “our” money, no matter if he makes more or I make more. Furthermore, I cannot imagine CB behaving in an dishonorable manner.  I’d like to think I would never behave that way either. I love him for his humor, his good looks, his kindness and quirks. But almost above all I love him for his character – he would have to become a whole different person for him to become bitter and spiteful. (Though of course, the nature of divorce means that people have changed, and often into someone unrecognizable to the other).

So, I don’t think we are going to get a prenup. Given all of the above considerations, I’d probably take the money we would have spent on a prenup and spend it on a big vacation instead! I hope our marriages lasts and lasts until one of us is called to the Big Gathering Place In The Sky. But baring that, I trust that we will both try our hardest to remain civil and amicable even if we were to separate. I believe we will be good partners to each other, and if we fail at that, I believe we can be good ex-spouses. It’s probably not a terribly romantic way of arriving at what is the “more-romantic” decision to not have a prenup, but it works for us.

Would you sign a prenup? I’d love to hear from anyone who has gotten a prenup or who has considered one, especially if you don’t have millions in the bank!

Help Your Significant Other Save for Retirement

 Help Your Significant Other Save for RetirementOne of the things about good relationships, I think, is that each partner help the other become a better person. Well, not to toot my own horn, but I think I’ve done my part when it comes to CB and personal finance. icon wink Help Your Significant Other Save for Retirement

CB isn’t as nerdy as I am when it comes to money management, but I’d like to think that I’ve nudged him towards the JOY and EXCITEMENT of saving for retirement. He first started a Roth IRA in 2009, and today he just put in the full $5,000 for 2010 (you have until the tax filing deadline – April 18, 2011 – to contribute to the Roth IRA for 2010).

I am so proud of him. CB is only in his mid-20s and he has already maxed out the Roth IRA for 2 years. Plus, his work has a very generous employer’s contribution, so with all of his retirement savings – Roth IRA, 401K, employer contribution – he is saving around 25% of his gross income towards retirement. How awesome is that?

Neither of us are out-of-control spenders or carry heavy debt load, so it wasn’t too hard to get the retirement-saving train rolling.

Here is how I helped my partner start saving for retirement:

  • Talked about why saving for retirement early is so important. The power of compound interest, y’all! “The old CB will thank you,” is what I always say.
  • Shared with him both my insecurities and goals – I do NOT want to spend my old age in poverty (I DO want to retire in sunny San Diego and have brunch every day), so it’s important to me that CB starts saving as well. Because if we stay together for the long haul (which is the plan), his financial well-being is mine and my financial well-being is his. By saving for retirement, he is honoring my priorities and showing me that he is committed to our mutual goals.
  • Gave him information on the logistics of opening up an account online, and helped him decide on an asset allocation that fits his goals and risk tolerance.
  • Encouraged him to sign up for a 401K in addition to the Roth IRA.
  • Told him he should put the money into retirement accounts instead of spending on Valentine’s Day (he still gave me a wonderful Valentine’s day, though, with a lovely bouquet of roses and lilies delivered to my office. So, I’m not sure that he listened to my advice… but I loved it!).

Personal finance is sexy. Now go and encourage your significant others to get a piece of the (retirement) action.

Have you successfully nudged (or been nudged) towards better personal finances by your partner/significant other?

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Well Heeled Blog in the blogosphere:

Thanks to Magical Penny for hosting the Carnival of Personal Finance: International Pi Day Edition and for selecting my post on Mental Accounting as an Editor’s Pick! Also, Dr. Dean at Millionaire Nurse hosted the Yakezie Carnival: Spring Training Edition and featured my post on Starbucks Rewards Card.

Photo credit: matthew_hull from morguefile.com

 

Yours, Mine, Ours: Money in Marriage

Jessica Grose of Slate just published a great 5-part series on How Couples Manage Their Money. Jessica, a newlywed who has been with her husband for 4 years previous to tying the knot, is wondering if, how, and when she and her husband should merge finances.

She interviewed couples from across the country, read up on the historical and sociological sources, and tried to figure out a way that’s right for her personal situation.

Part 1: Our Newlywed Money Dilemma
Part 2: Common Potters (“combine everything”)
Part 3: Sometimes Sharers (“a combination of joint and individual accounts”)
Part 4: Independent Operators (“strict financial separation”)
Part 5: What We Decided

Hopefully I am not spoiling it for anyone when I reveal that Jessica and Mike (her husband) ultimately decided to go the Sometimes Sharer route:

For the month of January, Mike and I have been keeping track of our individual spending. He’s been tallying his expenses on an Excel sheet. I have an account at the personal-finance Web site Mint.com. We’ll have a reckoning about what constitutes a joint expense and come up with a figure that should cover these expenses. Then we’ll each contribute 50 percent of that figure. For now, we will put the remainder of our salaries into our existing individual accounts and keep our savings separate. I’ll publish a follow-up next month with all the nitty-gritty.

There are benefits and deficiencies to each of the three major ways of handling money within a marriage (alas, I haven’t seen a perfect system yet), but maybe I can cobble together the perfect system for us.

Right now CB and I are Independent Operators, which I believe is the right course of action for the vast majority of unmarried couples. I don’t foresee us continuing as Independent Operators after we marry. After we make it legal, this is how I might approach the question of money in marriage: prenuptial agreement before the marriage, a common pot after. This, I think, captures the best of both worlds: protecting yourself and each other in a fair and rational manner for just-in-case, but committing to joint financial goals while you are in the marriage -which hopefully lasts forever, of course.

I like the idea of joint goals for investments and big-ticket items, and I don’t want to be a couple that squabble over who bought the milk last week vs. this week. The biggest benefit of having a common pot, I think, is the retirement factor. Am I really going to feel secure when I’m 60 if I have $3 million stashed but CB’s pot is only $300K (or vice versa)? Doesn’t that mean, for all intents and purposes, that we have a joint retirement kitty of $3.3 million? After all, I want us to jet around the world together, and not have one partner wait at home while the other traverse the Italian Riviera alone.

Just curious, has anyone gone the prenup + common potter approach?

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Fabulous Weddings for MUCH LESS Than $10,000? 4 Examples Of How It’s Possible

When my boyfriend and I first started talking about weddings, we were both relieved to find out that our expectations are, well, quite low achievable. Last night, CB mentioned to me that he’d rather have a small wedding and spend most of our money on traveling. “Is that okay?” he asked. “That is (absolutely and fantastically) okay,” I replied.  I am glad that we are in sync on this, at least on the big-picture stuff. (But seriously, if he doesn’t ask me to marry him, I am going to stop talking to him about weddings!)

We will figure out a budget when we come to that point, but I know neither of us want to go into debt for the wedding. Not only that, I don’t even think we want to spend a lot of money on it. Of course, “a lot of money” is subjective in wedding parlance.

The average wedding in the U.S. costs around $20,000-$30,000,

according to the various reports and websites that I’ve came upon. See Cost of a Wedding, The Knot, WE TV’s Wedding Report for more information. If you want to have a traditional wedding with a sit-down dinner, dancing, live music, etc., at an in-demand venue in a big city, then the costs can go up even higher.

Fortunately, the web provides much inspiration for more budget-friendly events. After just a quick google, I found many blogs that talk about keeping the wedding budget under $10,000. That’s quite an achievement, especially in metropolitan areas, but what if I can keep that budget solidly in the four-figure range? I found a few bloggers who talked about how to throw lovely, memorable affairs for around $5,000 or $6,000! Granted, a few of these posts are several years old, so of course $5K in 2005 isn’t the same as $5K in 2011, but the philosophy and the guidelines still ring true.

Fabulous Weddings For Under $6,000

Friday Night Cocktail Wedding for just $5,000 – Canada, 2009

Jen, Monica, G and myself went to some local flower shops the morning of our wedding and bought what we needed. I deliberately didn’t have a set flower in mind, so that I wouldn’t end up making an emotional decision to get overpriced flowers- I opted for whatever looked good, fit the scheme, and was well priced. We brought them to my kitchen and put together our bouquets and all the center pieces. Both Jen and Monica each carried a single stunning hydrangea bloom- it was perfect. Flowers are way easier than any florist will ever let on.

Doing a $4,722 Wedding in Style (and They Had a Violinist!) – Brooklyn, 2008

Out of curiosity, I went to the Filene’s Basement‘s chaotic “Running of the Brides” sale, but none of the countless dresses tempted me to part with $250. It was a deal for some, but more than I wanted to spend. So I did the next best thing – I checked eBay. And there it was, a simple yet elegant, sleeveless, satiny, ivory sheath with only one bidder and 40 minutes left on the auction. I won the dress for $27. The seller said she’d purchased it from Saks‘ Off 5th outlet but didn’t lose weight in time for her wedding. Fortunately, her diet disaster was my happy ending.

Man Plans $6,000 Wedding for Friend, Including Night at Mandarin Oriental – Manhattan, 2005

Restaurants in Manhattan spend way too much time competing with each other. The mistake that most couples make is going for the popular places that are listed on registries like The Knot. The key is to find an accommodating restaurant, offer them the chance to attract forty new clients with their food, and negotiate something that doesn’t affect their daily business. Incremental business is always welcome at these smaller restaurants. Their average margins are in the low single digits, and cash-flow is king.

Grad Student Throws $6,000 Wedding and Pays for Bridesmaids’ Dresses – Atlanta, 2008

I was able to get my photographer and deejay for free. I found the photographer, another graduate student, on Craigslist.com. He was trying to get his name out as a wedding photographer. Our engagement and wedding pictures were free. The deejay was the boyfriend of a friend and he was also trying to get into weddings. A lot of people don’t realize that most vendors will work for free when they’re just starting out as long as they’re able to reference you. A friend of mine is a makeup artist and she did my makeup for free that day as my wedding present.

If you are a bride- or groom-to-be who is looking to keep your special day in the four-figure range, you will love the stories I linked to. Read and be inspired! Edit: Girl with a Red Balloon pulled off a fun, festive wedding for under $10,000, in less than a MONTH!

On that note, can I confess to you, my dear readers, that one of the reasons why I want to get engaged is so I can finally start blogging about a wedding budget? I am not sure if that makes me a particularly dedicated personal finance blogger or just really strange. Of course I also want to marry the man I love, make a commitment, build our lives together, etc. But the wedding budget? The allure is immense.

If CB ever reads this, I hope he is not freaked out.

Debt is the Kiss of Death for a Relationship?

debt and love Debt is the Kiss of Death for a Relationship?Debt isn’t just hazardous to your financial well-being, it can destroy your relationships as well.  Just ask one young lady featured in today’s New York Times article.  Three days after she divulged to her fiance that she had over $170,000 in student debt, he broke off the engagement.  For her future relationships, she decides that she needs to share that information much sooner, because it can be a “deal-breaker.”

Still, all of this raises the question: At what point do you have a moral obligation to disclose your indebtedness during courtship? On the eighth date? When you get to third base? In your eHarmony online dating profile?

“It’s a sliding scale,” said Ms. Riesel, the Manhattan lawyer. “It depends on the person and the nature of the relationship.” Ms. Winters, the Short Hills divorce lawyer, said it might depend on your definition of a serious relationship. “But I wouldn’t wait until you were signing leases for apartments or picking out engagement rings.”

With a dual-career couple, it’s not unsurprising to have combined debt levels of hundreds of thousands of dollars. An MBA and a doctor, or a pair of lawyers, for example, can easily graduate with over half a million dollars after their studies.  If both CB and I attend graduate school as planned, we will probably come out with around $100,000-$150,000 in individual debt loads, baring any unexpected windfalls (ahem, lottery, anyone?).  It makes a little easier knowing that any significant debt we incur will be when we are in a relationship together, so no one is blindsided by the topic.

I wonder, though, is there a dollar amount of my significant other’s debt at which I would “walk away” from an otherwise loving and secure relationship?  I would say no.  But I have never been in a situation similar to what was profiled in the New York Times.

Before a relationship gets serious, I believe in a frank discussion about finances, especially on the debt burden, is certainly in order. Whipping out your student loan statement or your credit report is a bit of a mood-killer, so I’d save that discussion until at least the third date! icon wink Debt is the Kiss of Death for a Relationship?

Questions for readers:

1. If you have significant debt, at what point would you share that information with your significant other?

2. If you are dating someone who has significant debt, at what point do you expect or would want to know that information?

3. Is there an debt amount that is a deal-breaker?

Photo by Sean Hering Photography via Flickr

Do You Need a Dating Prenup Before You Move In Together?

datingprenups 300x225 Do You Need a Dating Prenup Before You Move In Together?In today’s brave new world of dating, mating, and personal finance, couples who are moving in together may well be considering a “dating prenup.”  What is that, you ask?  Well, I’ve never heard of the term either, until I started Googling. A prenuptial agreement is a legal document that spells out what happens to a couple’s assets and liabilities in the event of death or divorce.  A dating prenup is like a prenup for unmarried couples who move in together (and thus have none of the protection or guidelines offered to married people), providing terms and guidelines for a host of issues surrounding a breakup.

There might be some cohabitation in the not-so-far off future, and while CB and I have casually discussed the financial mechanisms of such a move, we haven’t really drilled down to the nitty-gritty.  Despite a penchant for all things personal finance, I don’t particularly want to make everything out to be so, well, contractual.  In other words, we both agree that if we make different salaries, it’s fairer to divide the rent according to percentage of total income instead of 50-50.  But we don’t (nor do we plan to – I hope) expect the one person to reimburse the other for a gallon of water that was not equally consumed.

When I typed in “moving in together finances” into Google, however, most of the websites that popped up mentioned the importance of a moving-in-together contract.  There are many names for this phenomenon: dating prenup, cohabitation contract, written agreement, pre-prenups, live-in contract, etc. I think prenups are generally a good idea (especially for community property states), but I’m surprisingly lukewarm to the prospect of drafting and signing a live-in contract with CB.

According to Kiplinger, though, I’m letting my heart rule over my head.  Kiplinger says that it’s essential to put your arrangement in writing:

This little piece of paper can help you keep your trial of domestic bliss from becoming a nightmare. In it, you should detail how much each partner will pay for rent, who will cover what household expenses, when bills are due, and other space-sharing arrangements.

The article even helpfully provides a sample cohabitation agreement.  AOL Personals shares horror stories of couples who didn’t have a cohabitation agreement and ended up fighting over a pen.  NY Post reports that more NYC couples are signing dating prenups. In addition to the more mundane financial aspects of living together, these pre-prenups can also set the terms of pet ownership / visitation after a breakup, expectations for graduate school support, even who pays for a termination of pregnancy, etc.  A recent CBS News did a segment on this trend, featuring a real life couple who has a dating prenup.

As sensible as these dating prenups seem though, I just can’t muster much enthusiasm for them.  Part of the reason is because CB and I don’t have combined finances (unless you count our joint savings account for Galapagos), and we have no plans to enter into major asset purchases before we are married.  We are both fairly financially-responsible.  We have been in a committed relationship for a long time.

Part of the reason is good old-fashioned optimist: I don’t think we will break up, though of course there are no guarantees.  Or, if we do, I harbor the hope that in the event that we break up after we move in together, we will both behave with grace, dignity, and respect for each other.  But I understand the prudence of a cohabitation agreement for couples who do have significant assets together, or if one partner would be giving up a job to move in with the other person.

My question is: Did you have dating prenup before you moved in? If so, what did you include? If not, how did you decide to forgo it?

image source: cbs.com

Personal Finance is Not About Money Obsession

Today’s New York Times had an article on people who closely track their net worth and then publicly disclose the figure online. The article was titled Net Worth Obsession. Many personal finance bloggers would fall into this category. I keep track of my net worth to have a rough picture of where my finances are at any one point in time. I try not to compare myself to other people, but I recognize that the human tendency is to compare.

I was a little surprised by the negative comments on the NY Times Bucks Blog… many people seem to equate the net worth trackers as people with misplaced priorities and judged the individuals featured in the article as poor souls who don’t really understand that the wealth of life comes from friends and family. Or perhaps they take issue with the fact that people have publicly disclosed their net worth. The article (and the comments) gave me much food for thought.

Previously, I’ve shared my net worth on this blog (although I don’t think I will continue). I’ve started with a negative net worth, and now I have a positive net worth. When I take on more debt to go to graduate school, my net worth will decrease. But neither I, nor do I think the other personal finance bloggers that I know, believe that we’ve gained any value as a human being simply by virtue of our debits and credits.  It’s a little jarring to think that others might look at this blog and peg me as “money-obsessed.”  Because I don’t think personal finance is about the blind pursuit or accumulation of money, at all.  Net worth is an important financial measure, and as such it’s a good idea to know your general net worth and reasons behind its increase or decline.

My mother knew her net worth and all the ins and outs of her money, but you bet your bottom dollar she knew exactly what money means and what it doesn’t.

Let me tell you a story about my family. My grandmother (my mother’s mother who essentially took care of me when I was young) fell ill with Stage 3 lung cancer in 2004. She lived overseas and was thousands of miles away from us. My grandmother bravely underwent chemotherapy and radiation treatment, but eventually the cancer metasized to her brain.  (Incidentally, she has never smoked a day in her life. We figured it might be the second-hand smoke from my grandfather, who quit after smoking for 35 years and never got lung cancer).

My mother took off several months within the space of two years to take care of my grandmother, see her through the medical treatments, and coordinate the in-home care that she needed.  The only reason my mother could take off those months, unpaid, was because 1. she saved enough money so that she didn’t have to worry about paying the mortgage or my tuition bills while her income was on hold, and 2. the U.S. law allows unpaid leave for family care (while preseving a job for her to come back to).

Some might look at the way that my mother live and say that she is too frugal, or that she doesn’t know how to enjoy life. My mother doesn’t care for a big house or new cars. She is still driving the 1993 Honda Civic with a broken AC and manual windows. One of her greatest pleasures was reading newspapers in bed. She is very clear on the state of her personal financial situation – she knows her assets and liabilities inside and out.

My grandmother passed away in 2006. To this day it’s still difficult to think of her passing without tearing up. I would have loved to have her live a happy and healthy life, filled with friends and family (she was so loquacious!), and be there to see me walk down the aisle or toss my graduation cap off into the air.  But I am comforted, more immensely than I can put into words, by the knowledge that my mother was there by my grandmother’s side through the end, and that they were able to spend those last months together. What a gift to give my mother has given to her mother, to herself, to her daughter, and to her family.

Sometimes I worry that writing (and by extension, thinking) so much about finances will render me too concerned with money or net worth or numbers that say very little about who we are as people. But then I think of my mother and my grandmother, and it becomes very clear. How we spend (and save) money is a large part of how we live our lives. How we grow (or not grow) our net worth is an important aspect of our financial situation. So I reject the notion that concern over one’s finances translates to obsession with money or that by keeping track of net worth we are conflating a financial measure with our self worth.

Caring about money, understanding money, and wanting to grow one’s material wealth do not mean that one forsakes the wealth of friends or family.  My mother is not money-obsessed. She simply has made the decision that by taking control of her finances, money will never be the arbiter of the most important decisions in life. That’s what I want. And that, I think, is what we all want.

The Ugly Truth: Men, Guys, and Money

Who better to share with us the truth about men, guys and money than a man (or, er, guy) himself? This is a guest post by Eric, who maintains a personal finance blog, Narrow Bridge Adventures (RSS feed). He is a recent MBA and financial analyst.

Ugly truth The Ugly Truth: Men, Guys, and Money

Because this blog is read primarily by women, I thought it would be fun to give you all a fresh, manly point of view on how many of us guys look at money. There are already dozens of great blog posts out there on the difference between men and guys.  While they all come from a different perspective and offer a unique opinion, nothing is more descriptive about the difference between men, women, and guys than this quote:

“A woman will see a river and marvel at its beauty.  A man will see a river and try to build a dam in it.  A guy will see a dam in a river and climb on top will all of his friends to see who can pee off the farthest.”

I would define a man as someone generally at least in forties, financially stable, is housebroken (puts the toilet seat down), has kids, and is generally reaching that boring point in life that leads into retirement and being old.  Men are probably good companions and never forget birthdays or Valentine’s Day.  They are an important part of the world, but this post is not really about men, it is about guys.

There are two types of guys. There is the messy with no real goals in life other than making it to level fourteen in whatever video game came out last month guy and there is the career/driven black leather furniture and sleek Armani suit guy.  Most of us fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.

If you are dating the sloppy type, do not expect much as far as motivation to do a lot.  This is likely not going to change for many, many years.  In my part of the world, Colorado, many of these guys end up bumming in the mountains doing the minimum work possible to get by skiing as much as possible.  They will likely suck you dry for money if you end up with one.  The best example I can think of for this is the group of guys including Seth Rogen and Jonah Hill in the movie “Knocked Up.”

The other extreme is a vain guy concerned solely with image and money.  They are going to work extremely hard, try to make a lot of money, and try to show it off.  If you want to be the “independent woman,” this guy might not be a great fit.  He is going to insist on paying for everything and frugal is not in his vocabulary.  An example is Charlie Sheen’s character in the movie Wall Street.

 The Ugly Truth: Men, Guys, and Money

You probably want someone somewhere in the middle.  I would say that I am about 20% the sloppy guy, 80% the motivated guy.  I work hard to do well, and I will spend on things that make me (and my girlfriend) happy.  However, I enjoy a good couch day where my focus is Netflix and Guitar Hero.

So, as we wander in the long journey of love, think about what kind of guy you want and where he fits on the scale. Double down on the right man (or, guy?).

image source: (1) wikipedia.org, (2) moviehole.net

Opening a Joint Savings Account to Save for Vacation

Galapagos Sea lion and pup Opening a Joint Savings Account to Save for Vacation

CB and I want to take a vacation to the Galapagos Islands, one of my Big Ticket Travel Dreams. I’ve been dreaming about a jaunt to the famed green isles and emerald waters ever since I’ve heard about the place. Galapagos seems like it would be paradise on earth. Entrance to paradise, however, does not come cheap. An excursion with a quality operator (small tour group, knowledgeable guides, comfortable and safe cruise ship with amenities) costs at least $5,000 per person. See Lindblad’s pricing for example.

It’s expensive, but Galapagos is one of those once-in-a-lifetime trips that I really want to do right. In fact, I want so much to go that I told CB I’d rather have an engagement vacation than an engagement ring. Diamonds might be a girl’s best friend but I’d get to swim with turtles in the Galapagos! Easy decision for me. icon smile Opening a Joint Savings Account to Save for Vacation

CB worked overtime a few weeks ago. He suggested we put that money towards the Galapagos vacation instead of frittering it away on eating out (I love food, but I will LOVE going to the Galapagos). I thanked him for his financial foresight and immediately began pondering the question of two committed-but-unmarried individuals who want to set up a joint savings account for a very specific purpose, i.e. a vacation.

Based on preliminary research, ING Direct Online Accounts appear to be a good option for us. We can even set up sub-accounts for other trips. I want a joint savings account that is completely detached from either one of our individual accounts. A very crass way of thinking about it is: in the unfortunate event that CB or I turn into vindictive and heartless people (because aliens have taken over our bodies, of course), the only money either of us can lose is our contribution to the joint savings account.

Although CB said that he doesn’t mind just transferring the money over to my account, I would feel better if it were an account with both of our names on it. Right now it’s not a big deal, but it might feel a little strange when the account gets to several thousand dollars and it’s still in one person’s name. We could just save for the vacation on our own, then write the check when the time comes (we did this for our Disney World trip). But I think having a joint savings account where we can keep track of our progress will be much more motivating.

Does anyone have experience opening ING joint savings accounts? Or with joint accounts in general?

image source: naturetrek.co.uk

This post was featured in the Carnival of Personal Finance: Unanswered Questions Edition hosted by Mighty Bargain Hunter

Elizabeth Gilbert and (Ex) Husband Michael Cooper On Money

Elizabeth Gilbert, of course, is the best-selling author whose 2006 memoir Eat Pray Love vaulted her on to the Oprah Show, TED conference’s speaker schedule, and the inside of various magazines.

She recently came out with her second memoir, Committed: A Skeptic Makes Peace with Marriage, which combines a fascinating look on the ever-evolving institution of marriage along with her personal questions and doubts about matrimony. I went to Barnes & Noble and finished the book in 2 hours.

Part of the book focused on Gilbert’s hesitations about the financial underpinnings of marriage – she and her husband (the Brazilian gem-dealer “Felipe” in Eat Pray Love) decided to sign a prenuptial agreement. Gilbert admits that in the past, she had a habit of financially supporting the men in her live, including the checks she must still send to her husband (I assume this is alimony / spousal support as they do not have children).

Naturally, this peaked my interest about her former husband. So just for fun, I googled “Elizabeth Gilbert” and “ex husband” and found this:

1998 interview by NPR’s This American Life (click on 38:00)

In this interview, you can listen to Elizabeth Gilbert and former husband Michael Cooper talk about spending their $10,000 nest egg on a lovely small wedding instead of the backyard affair that Gilbert had originally envisioned). The interview begins with Gilbert and her then-husband Michael Cooper sharing a childhood story that illustrated their differing views on money – Gilbert grew up in a household of thrift and constantly worried about money, while Cooper was much laisserz-faire about the topic.

When they were about to get married, Gilbert’s parents gave them a $10,000 windfall. Originally, she wanted to have a simple backyard wedding, then save the $10,000 windfall for the start of a nest egg. Cooper wanted a nicer wedding. They fought and cried and fought. But after much consideration, Gilbert realized that she would regret never dancing at her wedding, and so she and Cooper decided to spend that $10,000 on their wedding. Gilbert concluded by saying she would redo the wedding “even if it had been $100,000″.

Six years later, the marriage between Elizabeth Gilbert and Michael Cooper would be over.

I wonder if money issues had anything to do with the demise of Gilbert’s first marriage, and if she ever regrets the loss of that $10,000. Or if, in the aftermaths of an acrimonious divorce, $10,000 would seem like a small price to pay. The cynic in me thinks the latter – after all, at least they had a nice party. That $10,000 divided by two plus years of inflation probably wouldn’t amount to much in 2010.

For Gilbert’s marriage to “Felipe”, the ceremony was held in their home, with only immediate family members (and the dog) present. “Felipe”, the groom, made food for the reception. Gilbert had to remind him to take off his apron before they spoke their vows.

This post was featured in the 2nd edition of Yakezie Carnival.

Household Finance and Gender Roles: Women Budget, Men Invest?

A few days ago I caught an old clip of the TLC’s 19 and Counting, a reality show about the Duggar family who has 19 children. In order to run the house, everyone has a jurisdiction, a specific series of chores they are responsible for. The girls do all the cooking, laundry, and washing for the family, while the boys are in charge of outside tasks such as fixing the car, mowing the lawn, and taking out the trash.

In this episode, Trading Spaces, Duggar Style, however, the kids are switching places, a departure from their traditional gender roles. The girls learn how to do the boys’ chores, and vice versa. The goal was to teach each side to be more appreciative of what others do, and to teach them the skills to take care of themselves when the others aren’t around.

men women money Household Finance and Gender Roles: Women Budget, Men Invest?

This episode made me think of the “unofficial” jurisdictions that people take in their household finance, which is often divided by gender roles. From my experience and from what I’ve read about household finance, day-to-day budgeting and bill-paying frequently goes to the woman, while long-term investment and retirement planning job often belongs to the man. In my family, the responsibilities falls along the same gender lines – Mom is charge of daily stuff, while Dad monitors 401Ks and IRAs. They split the responsibilities for their property investments.

When I was growing up, my mom taught me a lot the importance of staying on top of household bills, knowing how much you make and spend, and getting a sustainable mortgage. But investing in stocks, bonds, large-caps, small-caps, etc. were a foreign concept to me. Although I had vague ideas that I should invest, I didn’t actually know the logistics of opening a Roth IRA until I had an old middle school teacher explain it to me in college. Then I started learning about the difference between stocks and bonds, asset allocation, different investment theories, so obviously I turned out OK even though I wasn’t exposed to investing at an early age.

I don’t have a brother, so I don’t know if a son would have received different financial education during his upbringing. But in the future, if my husband and I decide to combine finances, I think it’d be really fun to do a household finance trading spaces deal. Even though we might each have our areas that we enjoy being in charge more, both partners need to understand household finance, which include the budget and long-term investments.

For example, I like making investment plans and studying asset allocation. I do. But even if I am in charge of the investment portion of my household finance, I still need to understand the ins and outs of daily money matter. The reverse holds true. A true partnership might not mean that both partners do 50% of everything, but each individual should have a basic understanding of what’s happening with the household finances.

How did you decide who is in charge of the investment vs. budget in your household? Do you follow gender roles listed above? Have you ever tried to trade spaces with regards to household finance?

image source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mahalie/416934091/ via Wisebread.com

Love Might Be Free But Long Distance Relationships Aren’t

This post is a guest post by The Asian Pear for the My Honey, My Money series. AP is a twentysomething Canadian who is trying to find a balance between a healthy lifestyle and frugal spending habits to yummy food and fashion indulgences.

long distance relationship Love Might Be Free But Long Distance Relationships Arent

I am one of those people who will always know the current conversion rate of the Canadian dollar to the Euro.** I am one of those people who will always know which are the best phone cards, who are the best long distance carriers and who has the best long distance plans. I am one of those people who will always know the going-price for airplane tickets to go to Europe. Particularly Finland.

The reason is because my boyfriend, Bear, lives in Finland. And I live in Canada.

In May, Bear and I will be celebrating our 8th year anniversary together. All of which has been through long-distance. I wish I can say that having a long-distance relationship was simple and easy. In some ways, it is. In some ways, it is not. One thing for certain is that a long-term/long-distance relationship is NOT cheap.

When you’re dating someone traditionally, you take a lot of things for granted such as the act of conversation. You just simply phone that person or meet them after work. For Bear and I, things get a bit more complicated and expensive… When we first started dating, we were on instant messengers frequently. It was and still is the cheapest form of communication. Soon it wasn’t enough.

So we both went out and bought $70 webcams and $20 mics. We had trouble finding a suitable relay system and started using phones instead. This was even more costly. I had a land line but Bear only had a cell phone and finding a long-distance plan that works on mobiles is quite difficult. I remember paying $100 monthly bills often. Bear once had a phone bill close to $200 even. (Thank goodness we’ve found Rebtel since!) And that’s just the financial cost of conversation. Don’t get me started on our time differences and scheduling!

When you’re dating someone traditionally, you can give gifts and little tokens of affection. When you’re in a long distance relationship, the rules of the game change. You have to consider: how big is the gift, how much it weighs, will customs allow it through, how much the postage will cost and the type of postage. The first gift I ever sent to Bear was a package of homemade cookies. Not having ever sent anything abroad before, I did not even know the rules. A box of cookies ended up costing me almost $70 for air mail to Finland. My homemade cookies probably only cost $7 to make. Now I know better. Send light meaningful things. Send it 6 weeks in advance by surface mail. Nothing more than 500g optimally or 2kg at most.

Physically seeing each other is the hardest and the most expensive task. There’s a lot of planning and saving when it comes to a long distance relationship. I’ve learned over the years that money and time is a paradox. When we had time, neither of us had any money to make the long trip abroad. Now that both of us have (some) money, we don’t have the time.

From my personal perspective, not only do I have to save the money now for the trips but I have to ensure I have enough paid vacation days to cover it. If not, I have to request unpaid vacation days (and honestly? Who wants UNPAID vacation days?). A trip to Finland from Canada will costs about $800 – $1,200 CAD depending on the time of the year. Basically, this is a continual savings goal. As soon as I spend it, I’m already saving for my next trip because I miss Bear already.

I can’t complain though. I am very happy with Bear. He makes me smile despite the thousands of kilometers between us. I know I am lucky to have found him. Despite what it financially costs to be with him, I would say he is well-worth it.

Writer’s Footnote: For those of you interested, as of writing (February 13th), the Canadian dollar to the Euro is 69.86 cents.

Do you have tips for surviving long distance relationships without going broke?

image source: cyberlens.wordpress.com

Marriage, Money, and Making It Work

vintage wedding cake topper 300x224 Marriage, Money, and Making It Work

Everyone grows up surrounded by cultural paradigms, lenses through which we view or interpret the world. I’ve been thinking about two common cultural dialogues surrounding marriage / commitment and household economics – topics that interest me because I am in a serious relationship and because I find money, cultural norms, and gender roles to be fascinating topics.

The Nag and the Commitment-Phobe

An underlying assumption of our romantic cultural dialogue is that men are dragged into commitment, kicking and screaming, while women are the planners and instigators of such commitment, plotting and scheming. Cultural discourse portrays marriage as an end for the man (the end of freedom, fun, excitement, etc.) but a beginning for the woman (the beginning of “happiness”, true womanhood, “real life”). Think about the jokes about women having to get married by 35, or about men who deserve “condolences” when they announce their engagement [see A Practical Wedding blog for more on these topics]. Even though they might be said with a wink and a smile, these assumptions are internalized and disseminated.

Popular media talk about the woman “trapping” or “getting” the man to marry her (can you believe there’s such as a thing as an engagement chicken!?). I find that kind of…well, strange. While I do want to get married, I don’t see my job as “getting” CB, or any man for that matter, to marry me. My job is to treat myself and my partner with love, respect, and honesty. Call me a romantic, but isn’t a relationship a mutual journey and not a one-way pursuit?

A few days ago, CB and I talked a bit about how we see our future (I want to keep my name but lose the engagement ring, we both want a smallish wedding but big travel plans, he wants a big screen TV where we can play PS3 together, etc.). Our relationship is playful, but I do not play games with the important things. That means we reach marriage by deciding together that we want to commit to a lifelong partnership, not by me imbuing poultry with magical powers of persuasion. That’s why I find the language and perceptions surrounding men, women, and marriage to be so insidious, because I believe the way we discuss marriage and the future impacts how we live our marriage and build our future.

Real Men Make (More) Money

Another, related, line of cultural dialogue is that the man has to be the main economic provider in order to be a successful husband and father. CB and I have actually discussed this at length, because the man-as-provider was the model he saw as he was growing up. These dialogues are evolving, of course; but they exist. CB has said that he feels the pressures to support a family, even though we have every intention of being a dual-career, dual-income household.

Many couples have problems with the wife making more money than the husband because money is seen as a source of power in the relationship – even if the income is pooled. Not only that, money is seen as a source of masculine power. That’s why many women (not just men) find themselves uncomfortable when the girlfriends or the wives are the breadwinners. Knowing where the source of that discomfort comes from, though, is a first step in negotiating the landscape where household economics may differ from the traditional norms.

These paradigms are worth exploring and understanding, not because everything has to be analyzed to death, but so that we don’t unconsciously fall into these definitions of “marriage,” “money”, and “power” in our own relationships. I believe that a traditional arrangement where the man works and the woman takes care of the children is every bit as valuable a relationship as one where the couple both works or the woman works and the man stays home or both work part-time, etc., etc. By acknowledging and examining these cultural dialogues, couples can choose how they want to build their lives together.

CB and I will probably fall into some traditional gender roles because our interests have aligned themselves with such activities – I’ll do most of the cooking, because I enjoy it, and CB will change the oil and check the tire pressure on cars, because he’s good at it. As a New York Times article said so eloquently, the point “is not to spit at tradition for the heck of it but rather to think things through instead of defaulting to gender.” Exactly! The key is that we arrive at these decisions on income-earning and home-making thoughtfully, with an understanding of the cultural forces that influence our thinking.

My Honey, My Money by Fabulously Broke

Fabulously Broke, one of my favorite bloggers for her picture-laden posts and down-to-earth tone, gives us her take on her biggest money conflict.

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This might sound kind of silly, but our biggest money conflict is that sometimes I am willing to pay slightly more (nothing outrageously so) for an item.

Here’s a recent example.

We wanted to make duck for dinner, and basically scoured every possible grocery store and market before finally chancing across a couple of duck legs in a chic market.

Me: “We spent ALL DAY looking for this and finally found it. Let’s just buy it. This town is not made for duck eating. It’s our only hope. C’mere ducky!”

BF: “No. I know it can be cheaper than that. It should be worth $13/lb! I saw it somewhere, I KNOW I DID. No. Put it back, we’re going to find that duck.”

Me: “Damn it.”

In the end, he was right. We found the duck (a whole one) for $13/lb, but you can see where we have a conflict in money decisions there.

He wants to find exactly what he wants for the exact price he is expecting, and I am more laissez-faire in that I am willing to forgo a couple of bucks (not $20) just to pick up what we want. I don’t mind being wrong in that case if it saves me money, but I just think of the time and gas wasted and wonder if it’s worth it in the end.

It’s funny, but it all relates to what we’re buying.

He’s tough on the food, utility and gas prices, and he will spend the time searching for what he wants at the price he wants, whereas I am more like: “It’s duck. It’s not chicken. Just buy it.” I’m tough on personal purchases (electronics, makeup, toiletries), and I will spend time waiting for something to come down in price and delaying my purchases, whereas he will adopt my attitude towards food, and buy whatever they say the price is after checking all the sales.

Other than that, we don’t have money conflicts.

We each earn our own salary, and we save and spend it as we choose (although he has to remind me that I own a lot of nice things already). We each have our own retirement accounts and we are comfortable that we are both money savvy enough to not have to police each other, but to give money advice to each other instead.

We also split everything 50/50 because it works for us. The only things that we don’t is that I cover the cellphone and he covers the internet & parking.

I LIKE paying my share in the expenses because I feel less guilty when I go out to buy something for myself and I am not thinking about how that $20 could have gone towards paying my share of the expenses.

…and vice versa.

Other than that, we’re both pretty good with keeping expenses low (he calls me cheap, but I know otherwise).

Do You Have a Story to Tell on Money & Relationships?

Inspired by the month of February (Valentine’s Day always makes me think about the intersection between warm fuzzy feelings and cold hard cash) and my recent Q&A series with personal finance expert Manisha Thakor on money & relationships, I want to start a new series of reader-contributed material on this topic – the My Honey, My Money series.

Please email me with “My Honey, My Money” in the subject line. Posts should be around 500 words long. I’ll be happy to include a link to your personal blog or website and twitter account. If you’d like to remain anonymous, please let me know as well. I want to post 2-3 guest articles a month.

The first My Honey, My Money question is: What is the biggest money conflict in your relationship?

I’m so excited to hear all your stories!

Q&A with Manisha Thakor, Co-Author of Get Financially Naked, Part 4

Welcome to Part 4 of the Q&A with Manisha Thakor, co-author with Sharon Kedar of the new book GET FINANCIALLY NAKED: how to talk money with your honey.

**Due to the length and detail of these answers, I’ll be breaking the Q&A into 5 parts, with 1 winner revealed at the end of each Q&A. Look for the subsequent parts to come in a few days. See here for Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3. See here for my review of Get Financially Naked.

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Kelly b – How do you deal with a partner who is just too cheap when it is not a necessity in your life? My husband and I have lived with very little money but have finally gotten to be comfortable but he won’t let go of his ultra cheapness and it is major turn off! It is a difficult subject to broach so I would also like to know how to broach it.

Manisha - Yeeesh, this question hits home because I’m the ‘cheap one’ in our marriage icon smile Q&A with Manisha Thakor, Co Author of Get Financially Naked, Part 4 .  So as someone with a ridiculously strong frugal gene I can tell you that what helps me spend, and what I’m guessing will help your hubby spend, is have a clear financial roadmap.

What I need to know to indulge is that we’re not living beyond our means.  I’d recommend you sit down and review how much income you have coming in, what you are currently spending, and then identify… together… the areas where you have wiggle room to step up up the spending level.   Doing this as part of your annual household financial review process will keep it from feeling like you are attacking him. Your goal with the conversation is to help your household maximize it’s happiness.

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Elisabeth – My boyfriend complains that he spends too much buying dinner when we go out, but I buy and prepare all the groceries we eat in the home. Is there a better to argue that I’m chipping in a fair share than handing him my credit card statement every time he starts complaining? What would you do?

Manisha – This is a perfect example of where getting financially naked can be of perfect help.  I literally think you should keep ALL your grocery receipts and at the end of each week (or month, as you prefer) sit down with your boyfriend and show him exactly how much you’ve spent.  Ask him to do the same with receipts from dinner out, and compare.  The numbers won’t lie.  My experience is that individuals, male or female, who don’t do a lot of grocery shopping tend to be shell-shocked when they see how that all adds up.

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Kyle – What is the biggest mistake that couples make when attempting to combine finances?

Manisha – Hmmm, from what I’ve seen I’d say it’s consolidating pre-relationship debt of the other person (especially student loans) without fully understanding the long-term consequences.

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Vee – My question is at what point in the relationship is the best time to merge finances? (Obviously not right away, but I mean, after becoming engaged, before marrying, or not until after marriage sometime.)

Manisha - That’s not so far off from asking what’s the best time in a relationship to “merge bodies” to put it in PG language icon smile Q&A with Manisha Thakor, Co Author of Get Financially Naked, Part 4 .  My personal preference is not to merge money until after you are married and committed to each other for the long haul.  That said, life happens.  You may find the perfect house or perfect piece of land that you want to buy together before getting married.  In that scenario, I say tread carefully and take the time to make it legal – talk to a lawyer and literally draw up an agreement as to how you want to handle things if you split up.  It’s the financial version of hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

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Mollie - I am really good at knowing what I spend, and handling my finances accordingly. I am a big believer in JOINT accounts when you get married, but is there an easy, non-tedious way for the couple to keep track of their spending together? I would default to being the “primary” PF person in the marriage, because of my interest (and his lack thereof), which would work… but we also need a system where we’re both involved and communicating.

Manisha - My suggestion would be for you to be the primary bill payer (so you’ll know all the repetitive ongoing payments) and then have a basket in the kitchen that your partner can drop receipts in for any thing he/she spends money on.  That way your partner just has to collect receipts – and you will take those and account for them in your record keeping system of choice.  At the end of each month, if your partner will sit through it, you can review the totals.  If that’s too much personal finance for you honey, you can have a semi-annual or annual family summit where you review the budget.

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The 4th Winner of the Giveaway is Eric! Congratulations. Please email me your name and mailing address to receive your prize.

Buying A Home Together Before Marriage – Yay or Nay?

couple looking at home 73 Buying A Home Together Before Marriage   Yay or Nay?

Darling, I love you. Will you… buy a home with me?

Two of life’s greatest commitments, many would say, are buying a home and getting married. In the old days, usually couples would commit to each other then commit to a condo or a house, but times have changed.

A recent New York Times article talks about couples who decided to buy a home together before they get married, a decision that is partly driven by a favorable buyer’s market. What might be the right timing for real estate market still means more work for unmarried couples buying real estate together. They need to proactively address issues of equity, capital gains, buy-out provisions, etc., however, in case they separate later.

From the article,

Real estate lawyers say that there are more complications for unmarried property owners who part ways than there are for married property owners who divorce — and a less clear process for resolving them.

“By default, our laws are suited for married couples acquiring assets,” says Luigi Rosabianca, a real estate lawyer in Manhattan.

Deciding when to buy a home together is obviously different for every couple. Ideally, I would purchase a home with someone else only after we are married – the risk of something going wrong and then have to deal with complicated legal and personal issues should my partner and I separate is too great. After all, if I’m not sure I want to marry Mr. XYZ, I sure as wouldn’t want be taking out a several-hundred-thousand-dollar mortgage with him.

If I’m already engaged, however, and we found the perfect home at an unbelievable price and we are financially and emotionally ready to buy – well, then, it’d be mighty tempting, wouldn’t it? icon wink Buying A Home Together Before Marriage   Yay or Nay? I gather that’s the situation that several of the couples in the article faced. But personally, I’d still want to get married first before buying a place together.

“We will eventually get engaged and get married,” Ms. Matthews added. “We’re kind of like, let’s get this apartment now, then let’s make it official.”

Mr. MacLaughlin said: “We were talking about getting married and I said, ‘Wait a minute, if we just put off the ring, we’ll get the apartment first.’ ”

And on that note, I think I’d rather have a bigger down payment than an engagement ring. Not to say a Tiffany solitaire wouldn’t catch my eye, but you can’t build equity with a diamond, even if it does last forever. Or, on a less financially virtuous route, I’d also rather have a bigger / longer honeymoon than an engagement ring. Think of all the traveling you can do for an extra $5,00o.

Would you and your partner legally commit to a house before you legally commit to each other? Or will you only sign the mortgage papers after you sign the marriage certificate?

image source: frontdoor.com

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